If you wanna learn a great language learn Kotlin
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fkrauthan
05/10/2018, 9:55 PMIf you wanna learn a great language learn Kotlin
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stalbert
05/10/2018, 10:33 PMScala
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fkrauthan
05/10/2018, 10:34 PMeww Scala only looks sexy on Paper. Everyone that worked with Scala on bigger projects said that they liked it until they had todo something a little more enterprise scale
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stalbert
05/10/2018, 10:35 PMI've used it at moderate scale
stalbert
05/10/2018, 10:35 PMfunny to hear that though, given that Scala is popular in the largest scale (i.e. BigData)
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fkrauthan
05/10/2018, 10:37 PMI like simplicity of Kotlin as it is very close to regular Java (which a lot people know) but without all the shitty parts of Java and some cool features from the Javascript world
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stalbert
05/10/2018, 10:53 PMwhen I looked it it it seemed Kotlin just stole stuff from Scala 🙂. I am consigned to accept TypeScript for now
stalbert
05/10/2018, 10:54 PMI'll revisit Scala 3.0 when it pops out, and will likely skip Kotlin even though it's an 'official language' for android.
stalbert
05/10/2018, 10:54 PMI also expect to skip over Android development for that matter directly going to PWAs 🙂
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fkrauthan
05/10/2018, 11:03 PMHmm Typescript I don't like much^^
fkrauthan
05/10/2018, 11:03 PMAnd Kotlin is one of the first language developed from the industry for the industry rather then developed by academia
fkrauthan
05/10/2018, 11:04 PMand you can feel it in a lot of features
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stalbert
05/10/2018, 11:19 PMyou might want to look into Scala.next (aka dotty). It will be a very powerful language based on a few (fewer than most languages) solid constructs
stalbert
05/10/2018, 11:19 PMFor me, TS is as close to Scala as I think I'm gonna get with regards to NS and browser development.
stalbert
05/10/2018, 11:19 PMI admit I'm a fan of Scala as a language, obviously.
stalbert
05/10/2018, 11:20 PMI'm also a big fan of Jetbrains (I actually personally pay for the $200 yearly subscription for all their dev tools)
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stalbert
05/10/2018, 11:20 PMbut I'm not really a fan of them trying to push yet another language like Kotlin
stalbert
05/10/2018, 11:21 PMjust like I'm not a fan of Apple trying to push Swift, though at least JetBrains doesn't directly control the development target platform like Apple does.
stalbert
05/10/2018, 11:21 PManother example is Dart - not accepting of google trying to force that down our throats either
stalbert
05/10/2018, 11:22 PMTypeScript, while a MS product is an open endeavor and as a superset of JS I feel far safer with it than some of those other languages that are driven by industry.
stalbert
05/10/2018, 11:24 PMSo actually, I feel a language developed 'for the industry, by the industry' is a bad thing. To each their own I suppose. I think with computer languages, the sweet spot is a combination of good computer science (academia as you call it) with great tooling and a small number of core principles that make building real world apps easier.
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fkrauthan
05/10/2018, 11:24 PMI get your point. And I guess at the end it is heavily personal preference too (like with a lot of technology selections)^^
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stalbert
05/10/2018, 11:25 PMYes, though I do completely agree that Kotlin is a better choice than plain Java, though even Java has been improving a lot in recent releases!
stalbert
05/10/2018, 11:26 PMThe sweet spot for me (which some people dislike) is Scala's blending of FP and OO. TypeScript tries to achieve some of that as well. I get the impression Kotlin is mostly trying to be a better Java, and I think it's succeeding there, but I'm more interested in the lofty goal of blending FP and OO.
stalbert
05/10/2018, 11:27 PManyway, sorry to ramble on!
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fkrauthan
05/10/2018, 11:31 PMActual Kotlin can be used completely FP style too without workarounds. And has cool inline function syntax that is extremly powerful: https://kotlinlang.org/docs/reference/inline-functions.html
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stalbert
05/10/2018, 11:34 PMthe inlining looks like just an optimization? is the special syntax you're referring to the
body: () -> T)f
fkrauthan
05/10/2018, 11:36 PMyou can combine it with the null safety feature and easily execute code if something is not null etc. it improved tons of my code.
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stalbert
05/10/2018, 11:37 PMInteresting. Well if you came from Java, Kotlin should be a nice step up. I'd encourage you to take a look at Scala as well sometime
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fkrauthan
05/10/2018, 11:38 PMI guess I just had bad experience with scala when trying to understand a scala lib with not much language knowledge but maybe I should give it a second look
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stalbert
05/10/2018, 11:38 PMit has had that lambda syntax forever and doesn't typically use null at all, opting for monadic constructs like Option[T]
stalbert
05/10/2018, 11:38 PMYes, Kotlin may be your gateway drug to Scala heh
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fkrauthan
05/10/2018, 11:59 PMOr I just go back to Kotlin coz it solves all my problems^^
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mbucklaew
05/11/2018, 12:41 PMWhy did need anything other than Fortran on punch cards?
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stalbert
05/11/2018, 2:24 PMI am just barely to young for punch cards but I was required to learn FORTRAN in college!
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