Seeking opinions: so I've never done contract work, but I have an opportunity for some extra income. I'm an admin and have been for several years. There's a world of potential knowledge relating to being an admin/consultant and I don't think many people outside of Marty Zigman seem to know everything. For the sake of brevity, let's just say that in the grand scheme, I'm average. I have a co-worker that is moving to a new company. She wants to start that work there with NetSuite (there is no system in place as it's a start-up) and she's asked me to help with some general admin things (user set-up, roles/permissions), but also some more complex stuff like bank feeds and outgoing bank payments. I've done some research (reddit) on some general rates that people charge or get charged; obviously, the scope of the asks can vary greatly as well, from basic admin stuff to full-on architecting for a large firm. I don't think they will be in need of major architecture or process flows, but I also will be looking to have them make good decisions for the future, so that kind of thinking will definitely be a part of what I bring to the table. I've seen rates ranging from under $100/hr to $400/hr, with most (reasonable) folks seeming to think 150-200 is a typical rate. Location is US/AZ for both myself and client. I'm thinking of going with $160/hr - based on this information, does that sound fair (for both sides)?

I charge $100-150/hr for dev work myself

You could think about providing a retainer rate of X amount per month, for X amount of hours. That gives you some guaranteed income per month and the company guaranteed support. Once they get close to using up their allotted hours send a gentle reminder. Saves nickel and diming time; you obsessively tracking time and them caring about where that time is spent. Value isn't measured in hours anyway.

If this is a one-time thing, there's probably no need to overthink it. Pick a mutually agreeable rate and go for it. Maybe consider the bucket retainer model like @ehcanadian says. If you think you might do this contracting thing for the long term, I definitely suggest researching other pricing models that don't involve trading money for time. Hourly Billing is Nuts is a pretty good starting point. I have others as well for anyone interested.

I hate hourly billing just as much as the next guy but getting people to go retainer or project costs is ridiculously hard within the NetSuite space IMO from experience at least

It's definitely hard to convince someone who isn't really open to other options, and that's fine. I don't try to convince anyone; if someone wants to pay by the hour, then I just chalk it up as not a good fit and we part ways. They have plenty of alternatives.

Here is my .02c. What is fair to you is likely not fair to clients. For some reason most clients always think what they need is easy and $160 is outrageous for clients like that. Also, consider it is a start up and complexity is not much there. Different rate for different clients and different projects I’d say. I would not charge $160 for bank feeds, but will charge $350+ for screwed up ARM and R2R (or here I set fixed price based on this rate)

No its good discussion. I know you and I have talked about it a ton @erictgrubaugh. I guess it comes down to how bad do you need money and if you are willing to do hourly vs project scope.

Love those comments, @creece. Like I said, never done freelance/contract work before, but that's absolutely the way I would be. It's way better in the long run to just be cool and not make people feel nickel/dimed.

Yes. There's also a fine line there of getting taken advantage of. The entire thing is a dance.

I find when no one is worried about whether the meter is running, there is a lot less dancing.

it is always a dance. the worst is saving clients from themselves because they think they know better then NS

From my own experience, its been more fixing stuff other companies did that has blown up more than writing new stuff.

@erictgrubaugh so, while I might eventually, I'm not going to read that book today; what's the proposed alternative in short?

Fixed fee projects, paid up front, with the fee based not on the inputs (e.g. hours worked) or outputs (e.g. roles created, code written) but instead based on the value of the business outcomes delivered (e.g. increased profit, decreased risk).

Appreciate it; that was definitely one of the scenarios I figured it was. In theory, I agree with it in principle. In practice - especially as someone who has not travelled down this road before - I would be pretty data/evidence-poor in terms of putting together a viable number (for me or them).

It certainly takes practice

just an idea. sell them some fixed hours of your time, like 5, 10 hours per week, give them a discount rate.

Given the opinions stated, I think I'll offer out something in the 95/hr range. Seems like contract vs salary should be in the range of 1.5x hourly rates, which is in the ballpark of my salary, so that jives. As for this company, they seem to be cash-rich based on what my contact is saying. She didnt' exactly give me the impression that I should come in low...

Good luck; let us know how it goes

FWIW she's my former boss and will be heading the accounting/finance dept there, so at the very least, I have her full confidence.

dont say you'll do 95, start at 115/125 depending on how many hours they need from you(aka negotiable). 🙂 it's a good start to shift from admin to consulting.

I imagine this is going to be mostly admin with a bit of the other two mixed in.

Just for a reference I have been doing suitescript for 10 years and have certs/degrees and $100 was a hard sell at times.

where are you located. $100 rate equals to 200k annual 1099, or 150k W2. with 10 years of experience, you can take a W2 easy. I guess it's just what kinda of life style you want.

I'm in AZ. This isn't going to be a FT thing at all, just a few hours here and there, I'm guessing.

the message was reply to creece. sorry

@leo_ns I'm in Ohio. I have a regular netsuite dev day job and i do netsuite dev on the side. I just do it to fund daycare and my drone racing hobby.

@Dylan Fields Retail rates are anywhere from 180 - 350/hr. I would think that 160 is a deal for them if you’re doing hourly rates. Though, there are others who will do it for closer to that $100/hr rate. If the scope is known, it is easier to negotiate a cost that works, and it really comes down to what the business will tolerate. If they would prefer to know how much they’re going to spend each week/month, then you can negotiate a fixed fee, for up to XX Hours.. and that may be better for both parties.. up to 20 hrs/week, for example, as long as they know there will be at least 20 hrs per week, it’s easier to budget for.. If there is a schedule component where it would be more valuable for them to have the results on or before a certain date, that can affect the value and pricing in everyone’s favor. In all scenarios though, it is about making a business case that supports the value you’re providing.

@creece "There's also a fine line there of getting taken advantage of." I've been on both sides of the fence. The best is when you have a great relationship with the client and if the work becomes more complex and timely, you can simply tell them that and they will pay you accordingly... 180-350 is an absurd number, unless you are a complete guru and do the work of at least 2.

180-350 is an absurd number

I don't think these are absurd at all. They might look that way if you are just comparing one person's hour to another person's hour, but there is no real or reliable way to make that comparison. We just fool ourselves into thinking that because we can compare nice round numbers easily, but that is false confidence and places the value on the wrong thing (the hour, instead of the outcome). Value is entirely subjective, and only the buyer can decide what an acceptable value is. The more you divorce the value you provide from the time it takes to provide it, the less "absurd" numbers like that look.

Its not that absurd really. For example. if someone like myself or eric w/ 10+ years experience doing netsuite development can get in and our in say 4 hrs, then that's $1400 vs paying someone that doesn't have a clue $80 for 20 hrs or $1600 hours to figure it out.